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Forum » WARSHIFT FORUM » GENERAL DISCUSSION » W.I.P. - New super-heavy unit "Dreadnought"
W.I.P. - New super-heavy unit "Dreadnought"
AdministratorDate: Saturday, 24.01.2015, 01:33 | Message # 1
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I've always been inspired by huge steel monsters from WWI/WWII and wanted implement something like that in my game so long. So it's time to test a really big guns!



Heavy orbital/atmospheric battleship “Dreadnought” was designed for bombardment of the planet’s surface and assault operations. This unit can be controlled only in strategy mode and its management is much more difficult than management of other units for several reasons:
- Battleship has limited ammo for weapons that need to be replenished in the Docking Platform.
- Battleship does not pursue the enemy automatically. Its course should be set manually.
- Coordinates of missile and artillery strikes should be set manually.
- Long range weapons can't shoot at too close range. So, after receiving the order battleship takes time to reach a firing position and targeting.
- Battleship cannot function without a Docking Platform and it will fall if linked platform will be destroyed.



Weaponspecifications:
- x12Ballistic rockets “Typhoon” with thermobaric warheads. This is powerful long
range but not a very persistent weapon. This weapon applies only in the
artillery mode. Coordinates for strike must be set in advance.
-x6 300mm Rail cannons based on 2 towers (ammo: 60 shells). This powerful
mid range weapon automatically focuses only on the enemy at buildings, ARK or
battleships. It is too unwieldy to hit small or moving units. But it can be
used for artillery strikes against a large concentration of enemy troops or
fixed units.
- x2Anti-air systems “Solpuga” (Rocket launcher + x2 6-barrels coilguns). This
defensive weapon (automatic turrets) destroys enemy units at close range.
- x1Interceptor on helipad (CAS Fighter/Gladiator). Interceptor can be started and
used for reconnaissance and guidance of ranged weapon of battleship, as well as
for protection from enemy aircraft.



Battleship and Docking platform is a unitedsystem. Battleship cannot function without a Docking Platform. If this building
will be destroyed, you will lose the linked battleship as well. Battleship is a
powerful combat unit that can change the tide of battle. But this is its
"Achilles' heel".
In this version of the game each team can build only one battleship in skirmish mode. But there are few battleships in some campaign missions.
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AdministratorDate: Saturday, 24.01.2015, 01:36 | Message # 2
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.
Some development process footage:





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AdministratorDate: Saturday, 24.01.2015, 01:37 | Message # 3
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Lightmaps/Ambient oslussion:

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AdministratorDate: Saturday, 24.01.2015, 01:39 | Message # 4
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Textured:



Finally detailed

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AdministratorDate: Saturday, 24.01.2015, 01:46 | Message # 5
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Final 3D Model:

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hralDate: Friday, 30.01.2015, 16:57 | Message # 6
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Hi Cyril,

Always so nice to see your work !

Will that ship be playable in FPS ? in RTS ?

A few points however :

Landing pad
A landing pad only makes sense for athmospheric vehicles. Helicopter and VTOL planes. And I acknowledge that the Gladiator space interceptor has VTOL cabability, however :
It just doesn't make sense with a landing spot in deep space. In space you might as well park your spaceship 1 meter above the landing pad, than on it.

First of all, you need to put on your spacesuit, go for a small spacewalk. Spacewalks are inherently dangerous...
Second, refuelling, rearming and repairing, well even if it's zero gravity, there is not gonna be a guy in a spacesuit with a net full of missiles and ammunition dragging after him. It will be inside a hangar, either in pressurised enviroment with possibly human mechanics and flight preppers, or a unpressurised enviroment with robotic systems.

Suggestions for hangars

Force Field Hangars
The Star Wars style high tech solution. A force field either on the side of the ship, so that you can enter the hangar box, or like the Empire has, where you enter it from the bottom. 
Star Destroyer style : http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/magazines/cinefex/execbay1.jpg
Classic style : http://media.moddb.com/images....051.jpg
I think the Star Destroyer solution is better for protecting the hangar, when it's inside a cavity it's quite hard to hit, but it takes up more space... the "classic style" with an entrance in the side of the ship, would under normal circumstances seem quite vulneable to weapons fire.

Mechanical Hangars -
basicly like the front of the human carrier in the game, but with an airlock someplace.
If you don't want do do force field hangars, then mechanical hangars are the way to go, like this from Red Dwarf - http://www.ganymede.tv/images/indepth/tardis-mag.jpg. 

Exterior Docking Berths-
These are the "cheapest" hangar facilities a ship may have. And would take up the least space, so maybe it should be the standard for non Carrier ships.
A tractor beam or robotic arm pull the smaller ship into a cradle, or the 2 navigation computers synchronise, and the ship is maenouvred into position until a clamp (magnetic or mechanical) can be activated See this concept image from Alien 1, with the escape ship, being docked with a clamp - https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2013....0&h=632

In the case of the Gladiator ship, I would think an airlock which fits around the cockpit, so when docked the cockpit disappears into ship, and opens inside the ship.
Small repairs could be made on the ship, with exterior robotic arms and tools, and the same goes for refuelling and rearming.
The docked ship would still be subject to some of the problems with the landing pad solution. Micrometeorites, space dust, and space debris would hammer it. And while the capital ships presumably have shields, thick armor plating and repair teams, the smaller fightercraft are in all likelihood not as tough as the big ones, and with more fragile electronics, life support systems etc.
 
hralDate: Friday, 30.01.2015, 16:58 | Message # 7
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Name : Destroyer Class : Ship

I think it is a bit confusing when you use names from a category of warships : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Warships

Battleship definition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battleship
 A battleship is a large armored warship with a main battery consisting of heavy caliber guns

Destroyer definition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer
 In naval terminology, a destroyer is a fast maneuverable long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet, convoy or battle group and defend them against smaller powerful short-range attackers.

And my smallest but.
I think the gun emplacement just in front of the bridge looks a bit too much like now-a-days defense system against anti-ship missiles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

To be fair, I really like the prow, in that it looks like an ocean going ship, and well, you might also need to ram stuff in space smile

Some Inspiration
A discussion on spinal mounts : http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads.....226369
A discussion of space based weapons : http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php
And a picture of the Yamato ship with a spinal gun (this was where Starcraft got some of their inspiration, ie. Yamato Gun
http://ourstarblazers.com/vault/202/
 
DSNGDate: Saturday, 21.02.2015, 12:31 | Message # 8
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This looks cool! Well done Cyril!
You are making History!
Keep up the good work man!
smile
 
AdministratorDate: Wednesday, 04.03.2015, 02:21 | Message # 9
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Thank you all for good comments and advices!
I'm just updated this thread with new information about this unit.
 
hralDate: Wednesday, 11.03.2015, 16:55 | Message # 10
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Nice with the inspiration updates, I have read about the Ekranoplan before, but never seen the Lun-class version of it !

I tried to use it ingame, but I had trouble making it fire...
 
AdministratorDate: Wednesday, 11.03.2015, 23:01 | Message # 11
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As I'm said before, I deliberately made it more difficult to control than other units. Otherwise he would unbeaten unit that would violate the balance in the game. 2 anti-air systems "Solpuga" aiming only automatically on enemy units (you can't choose targets for it manualy). Cannons aiming automaticaly (on nearest enemy building) or manualy on choosen coordinates or fixed enemy structure. Ballistic rockets "Typhoon" aiming ONLY manualy on choosen coordinates. If you want firing rockets - first you should enable bombardmend mode and choose coordinates manualy. If you want firing by cannons - first you should enable artillery mode and choose coordinates manualy. In any cases Dreadnout need time to retreat to firing position and reload it's cannons (after every strike). Also you have button to launch aircraft. And don't forget to recharge weapons in docking platform, cause ammo is limited.
I am sure that the control of battleship-class units will not cause problems for people who have played in serious, realistic games like "Wargame: Red Dragon" or "Company of Heroes" before.
 
DemonocolipsDate: Saturday, 04.07.2015, 05:48 | Message # 12
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it has low health and needs ammo. as with the starcraft battlecruiser it seems cool but is ultimately really not very good. oh and  i love how they were added to the first level but you have no way of actually reloading them.
 
AdministratorDate: Tuesday, 07.07.2015, 16:06 | Message # 13
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Well, I see only three ways to reload it on the space skirmish level:
1. Add to the level flat asteroid with Docking Platform.
2. Add to the level an large tech station/platform with Docking Platform.
3. Add to the game a special Cargo Spaceship that will rearm and repair every allies unit in its range.

I can increase the armor (that is not a problem), but this must be done considering balance. Otherwise, what interest to play game where you need only one invincible unit? Aliens don't have a similar class units yet.

Generally, I'm not referenced to the battlecruiser, I create this unit to add a few gameplay elements from wargame genre + my own innovations, such as united unit-dock system. This unit is still a subject for experiments, where is necessary to find a balance between wargame genre elements and RTS genre elements.

That's for inspiration:
https://youtu.be/8wFBa-WsJ-I
 
hralDate: Tuesday, 07.07.2015, 23:31 | Message # 14
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Quote : 3. Add to the game a special Cargo Spaceship that will rearm and repair every allies unit in its range. 

Some inspiration - Support Cruisers ! smile - Often referred to in EVE and on the EVE forums as Remote Repping, RR, or logistics. The logistical profession is also known as Remote Support Services (RSS).

More inspiration from Eve could be Command Ships, a force multiplier of other ships.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en....d_Ships
 
DemonocolipsDate: Thursday, 09.07.2015, 05:38 | Message # 15
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im a bit salty about the overall control system in the game so i apologize for that but honestly they just are not great unfortunately.

their not bad just that they are too expensive to be considered good either. multiunit targeting systems would help immensely as being swarmed by other units is the fastest way they die. Also due to their poor performance in the first mission i haven't used them anywhere else so maybe their better when i can reload them idk.

as toward ammo replenishment other games have done things like this i would reference the earth 2150-2160 games using either autonomous drones or helicopters to resupply ammo. these could be shot down by the enemy and would hinder supply lines in games. though honestly the ammo system is a little inconsistent with the entire game as anyone can reload anywhere.

also question, is it just me or is it that i cant control more than one at a time?
 
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